The cars and bikes thread!

[thewalrus]

https://www.sema.org/news/2016/02/08...-into-racecars

**** the EPA


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I like to support the EPA, because they typically have to take some pretty unpopular positions to benefit a, I believe, far greater good. They clearly don't always get it right, but I give them the benefit of the doubt, usually.

But this one doesn't make any sense. If the car meets emissions regulations, where's the problem? Even if it's modified for racing. If it doesn't, then the EPA has an avenue to get it off the road. This seems to be a fairly heavy handed position to take - and one where I don't see a lot of common sense being used.

[Raza]

I like to support the EPA, because they typically have to take some pretty unpopular positions to benefit a, I believe, far greater good. They clearly don't always get it right, but I give them the benefit of the doubt, usually.

But this one doesn't make any sense. If the car meets emissions regulations, where's the problem? Even if it's modified for racing. If it doesn't, then the EPA has an avenue to get it off the road. This seems to be a fairly heavy handed position to take - and one where I don't see a lot of common sense being used.

Not to get political, but yes, the EPA is a ridiculously important agency. However, this is misguided. Especially as modified cars are such a small market.

[thewalrus]

I'll move out of the U.S. if that happens.


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To where? I doubt the US is any further ahead of any western, first world, nation in developing this technology. The demand for autonomous cars is, at least from my seat of the pants assessment, just as great in Canada as it is in the States. Maybe more so. Outside of a very few like minded friends, most of the people I know, who are my age or younger, fully embrace this trend, are anxiously awaiting full automation, and see absolutely no benefit in driving yourself anywhere. Hell, I have a few younger relatives and acquaintances in their early to mid 20s who still don't have a license, and don't seem to have any intent on getting one.

I think we have 10, 15 years before we see a widespread switch towards automation and fully electric cars. 20 years and I'm guessing we won't even be able to drive our own cars any more.

[thewalrus]

Not to get political, but yes, the EPA is a ridiculously important agency. However, this is misguided. Especially as modified cars are such a small market.

I agree. And frankly I worry that if they're going this route, the classic car guys will be next. The EPA has far bigger fish to fry. And far more important things to focus their attention on.

[Raza]

To where? I doubt the US is any further ahead of any western, first world, nation in developing this technology. The demand for autonomous cars is, at least from my seat of the pants assessment, just as great in Canada as it is in the States. Maybe more so. Outside of a very few like minded friends, most of the people I know, who are my age or younger, fully embrace this trend, are anxiously awaiting full automation, and see absolutely no benefit in driving yourself anywhere. Hell, I have a few younger relatives and acquaintances in their early to mid 20s who still don't have a license, and don't seem to have any intent on getting one.

I think we have 10, 15 years before we see a widespread switch towards automation and fully electric cars. 20 years and I'm guessing we won't even be able to drive our own cars any more.

That is the worst case scenario, yes. Best case is that people realize that it's a MASSIVE ****ing legal cluster**** to figure out what to do when something goes wrong. Who assumes the liability when a computer goes wrong and people die? I assume the answer will be that the consumers will get ****ed again.

[Raza]

I agree. And frankly I worry that if they're going this route, the classic car guys will be next. The EPA has far bigger fish to fry. And far more important things to focus their attention on.

I agree. There's so much important stuff out there that this focus makes no sense.

[93EXCivic]

So it turns out that is SEMA making a big stink out of nothing. The legislation only applies to semis and the like and even then only refers to the emission systems on big trucks. So I guess the only people really effected by this are people who race big trucks which is such a small number of people you have to wonder why even bother?

The clauses in the legislation.

“Certified motor vehicles and motor vehicle engines and their emission control devices must remain in their certified configuration even if they are used solely for competition or if they become nonroad vehicles or engines”. 80 Fed. Reg. 40138, 40565 (July 13, 2015). “



Page 40527 "As noted above, the exemption provisions of 40 CFR part 1068, subpart C, already apply for heavy-duty highway engines. EPA is proposing to add a clarification that the exemption from the tampering prohibition for competition purposes does not apply to heavy-duty highway vehicles. This aligns with the statutory provisions for the racing exemption."

Edit: Or Not!

http://jalopnik.com/the-epas-crackdo...=1455053744356

[93EXCivic]

To where? I doubt the US is any further ahead of any western, first world, nation in developing this technology. The demand for autonomous cars is, at least from my seat of the pants assessment, just as great in Canada as it is in the States. Maybe more so. Outside of a very few like minded friends, most of the people I know, who are my age or younger, fully embrace this trend, are anxiously awaiting full automation, and see absolutely no benefit in driving yourself anywhere. Hell, I have a few younger relatives and acquaintances in their early to mid 20s who still don't have a license, and don't seem to have any intent on getting one.

I think we have 10, 15 years before we see a widespread switch towards automation and fully electric cars. 20 years and I'm guessing we won't even be able to drive our own cars any more.

Chile seems nice? Honestly I can see personal driven cars being banned from highways but you can still ride bikes and horses on the road. I don't see how our current cars would be any different. I mean a Model T can still be driven on the road and it has almost nothing in common with a car of today. I don't know anyone who wants a self-driving car but maybe that is just the group of people I hang out with.

[thewalrus]

That is the worst case scenario, yes. Best case is that people realize that it's a MASSIVE ****ing legal cluster**** to figure out what to do when something goes wrong. Who assumes the liability when a computer goes wrong and people die? I assume the answer will be that the consumers will get ****ed again.

Absolutely. In fact, frankly, I think it'll be law, and not practicality, that leads to the extinction of the driven car. The more of these autonomous cars are on the road the more prohibitive it'll be to insure a driven car. To my mind the functional result will be an almost 'deeming' of fault to the driver of the non-autonomous car in an accident with an autonomous vehicle. Can you imagine the consequences for insurance rates if you're deemed to be at fault for any accident you have with even a quarter of the cars on the road?

[93EXCivic]

So the EPA legislation is worse then I thought originally. It would basically kill the aftermarket industry.

The 24 Hours of Lemons had a lawyer examine the legislation and this is what he found.

http://www.24hoursoflemons.com/images/EPA-Memo.pdf

So if you care about racing and/or being able to modify your car please sign this.

https://petitions.whitehouse.gov//pe...les-racecars-0