Why nothing since 1966?

[Strange]

A question that has been nagging at me for a long time is why is England incapable of being a serious world cup contender? You guys invented football, it’s baked into your DNA, every English kid plays the game from the time they learn to walk, and you have an incredibly deep pool of talent, yet you can’t even make the semis to save your sorry arses. What the living hell???

I really cannot figure this out. I’ve asked various English about this and no one seems to have a plausible explanation for it. What do you all think?

[tribe125]

We have a deep pool of talent now, but that certainly wasn’t the case for many decades. English players weren’t noted for their technical skills and the coaching wasn’t sophisticated. Domestically, competition in the old Division 1 and new Premier League was always tough - more so possibly than in other countries where two or three teams were streets ahead of the rest. Competition seemed to lead to obduracy more than it did to imagination. Work ethic triumphed over flair. And curiously, all these things were true of the team that won in 1966…

[Mediocre]

It is likely similar to baseball in the US. It is not necessarily that US has become less talented. The rest of the world caught up....and some moved ahead

[Raza]

Well, as an outsider, I think philosophy gets in the way a lot. England, for a long time, had a very stodgy style of play, a double pivot, single striker, often a big man with limited mobility. The game moved on, and in traditional British fashion, they trucked on saying the mantra “But you see we’ve always done it this way”. Change came, but it’s not always good.

To sum up their current problems, manager Gareth Southgate is terrible. A brief list of why I’ve been clamoring for his termination for years:

(1) He’s got no sense of game management, often playing 70 or 80 minutes with a strategy and players that are not working, only to make changes with a sliver of the game left.

(2) He is such a defeatist that he appears to build in scapegoats for his failures. These scapegoats all seem to have the same characteristics—they are young, they are Black, and the English media and fans have already been primed to spew vitriol their way. Trent Alexander-Arnold, Jadon Sancho, Marcus Rashford, even the largely loved (now) Bukayo Saka have all fallen victim to his horrible decisions that can only be explained either by extreme, amateurish stupidity or a calculated plan to alleviate pressure on him by scapegoating players.

(3) Over-reliance on players who are too old to play with the frequency, intensity, and length of time associated with international tournaments. Kane was plan A, B, C, and D. Kyle Walker owned the RB position despite being roughly 200 years old (and yet he escaped media vitriol for his part in England’s defeat, whereas Alexander-Arnold gets blamed for things even when he’s not even playing).

(4) Fearful loyalty to players who aren’t performing. Throughout the Euros, he made very few changes to his lineup, even though players like Harry Kane and Phil Foden were playing like absolute shit. Foden especially played with the intensity of a hamster in a wheel, constantly trying very hard and constantly getting nowhere. Kane looked as past it as could be. And yet, they started almost every match and played very long into each of them. Kane was shielded from criticism by late substitutions, but if you were watching, you could see he was a passenger basically the whole tournament. And you can ask Portugal what it’s like to carry a player who doesn’t contribute and thinks everything is about him. It’s like Southgate is scared that they’ll put in a transfer request.

(5) He excuses bad performances with good results. It’s intellectually dishonest. Yes, of course results matter, but you can’t play poorly every match and rely on luck or individual moments of brilliance to pull your ass out of the fire, because eventually luck runs out and sometimes no one gets a chance to be brilliant.

(6) I think Jordan Pickford has kompromat on Southgate, because otherwise why would you keep picking such a subpar keeper over better ones left on your bench?


I think when you add all these up (and there might be more, I’ve been distracted like four times while writing this, so my head has been in other things), you get a team of complacent starters, players who feel like they’re being treated unfairly, and a lack of team spirit. It’s not that they don’t want to perform well for their country, but I don’t think there’s a strong sense of togetherness in the squad.

England absolutely has the talent to win a major tournament. Cole Palmer, Trent Alexander-Arnold, Bukayo Saka, Declan Rice, Dean Henderson, Aaron Ramsdale, Joe Gomez, Ollie Watkins, Jude Bellingham, Conor Gallagher, Curtis Jones, Anthony Gordon, Eberechi Eze, Ezri Konsa, Marc Guehi; this is a deep pool of talented and young players. Gareth Southgate is why they’re a joke of a team on the national stage.

[chuckmiller]

I've seen "Ted Lasso". Young players rule!

[Strange]

Sounds like a combination of systemic problems within the association and bad coaching and management. The fans must be deeply disappointed at such failures.

In terms of individual skills and team cohesion how would you rate the quality of Premier League teams against the rest of UEFA and CONMEBOL?

[tribe125]

Raza - your comments on Gareth Southgate are largely mistaken. The comments on the scapegoating of young black players is outrageous and completely without justification. I’m a bit shocked, to be honest.

[Raza]

Raza - your comments on Gareth Southgate are largely mistaken. The comments on the scapegoating of young black players is outrageous and completely without justification. I’m a bit shocked, to be honest.

I’m only going on what I’ve seen over the past several years of watching the English National Team closely and I’m not the only one. I’m sorry you feel differently, but I stand by it.

I will note that I’m stating my observations; I’m not saying it’s certain, I’m not saying anything about his character, I’m just stating what I’ve seen. It could be coincidental, it could be unconscious bias (on my part and/or his), but I definitely know what I’ve seen on the pitch and the discourse on social media surrounding those players when even the slightest thing goes wrong. Obviously, I can’t know what in the man’s mind or heart, but I’ve noticed a troubling pattern.

[tribe125]

You are maligning a man widely-regarded as one of the most decent and fair-minded in football.

Trust me Raza, your invective is misplaced.

[Raza]

You are maligning a man widely-regarded as one of the most decent and fair-minded in football.

Trust me Raza, your invective is misplaced.

I‘m more than glad to be wrong about that part, so I truly do hope you are correct and I am not.