The cars and bikes thread!

[Samanator]

If the automatic is the reason you're winning at stoplights, are you even really driving? I drive my brother's DSG S4 on occasion and it does nothing for me. Doesn't feel much different from driving my 15 year old E class's automatic. Quicker, slicker, and snappier, yeah, but I'm not doing anything. The computer does all the work. I don't care if I'm slower than a modern performance automatic or ACT. I'm having more fun.

Of course I'm driving. In many ways the same way 95% of the race cars are. Are F1 drivers not driving? They get pretty well paid for it if their not? If that is what you believe...OK. Shifting is shifting and I do not miss having the clutch when the transmission fires between the gears up, and down as well as they do in performance cars now. Back when autos were shifted, and you waited almost a count of two for the actual gear change manuals made sense. Now you just have a false sense of being more engaged. Face it you've been replaced. I can still drive a manual extremely well, but dread having one stuck on 95 in stop and go traffic. The 911 I had was every bit as engaging with the DSG as the manuals I tried on the same road. The difference was I was faster with the DSG. People don't buy ultra performance cars to go slow. These are to the point that even one year to the next there are vast improvements. I was rereading the test of the Camaro ZL1 with the auto and the things they programed into the auto to make it a true track car are amazing. Maybe I'm just more accepting that I can drive better with the new technology? I disagree with the Ferrari statement. Most of the drivers of them I know use the manual mode just like I do on the F-type. Same fun as a stick.

The same thing happened with newer motorcycles(performance). Yes I know how to upshift clutchless and rev match downshifts, but the computers doing it give a margin of safety since things seem to happen faster on a bike.

[gnuyork]

The dominant hand should be the one that keeps you on the road, but it means you can't drape your arm through an open window to show off your watch.

In your country, mlcor could drape his watches out the window. And... he has just the watches for it, too.

[93EXCivic]

Of course I'm driving. In many ways the same way 95% of the race cars are. Are F1 drivers not driving? They get pretty well paid for it if their not? If that is what you believe...OK. Shifting is shifting and I do not miss having the clutch when the transmission fires between the gears up, and down as well as they do in performance cars now. Back when autos were shifted, and you waited almost a count of two for the actual gear change manuals made sense. Now you just have a false sense of being more engaged. Face it you've been replaced. I can still drive a manual extremely well, but dread having one stuck on 95 in stop and go traffic. The 911 I had was every bit as engaging with the DSG as the manuals I tried on the same road. The difference was I was faster with the DSG. People don't buy ultra performance cars to go slow. These are to the point that even one year to the next there are vast improvements. I was rereading the test of the Camaro ZL1 with the auto and the things they programed into the auto to make it a true track car are amazing. Maybe I'm just more accepting that I can drive better with the new technology?

But there is a difference between faster/ better and more fun. Modern cars in all measurable ways are better. They are safer, faster, less carbon output, better gas milage, etc but I am just saying I don't find them near as fun to drive as an old Spitfire, X1/9, MR2, original Scirroco, EF/EG Civic, etc.

Personally I don't need a million horsepower, eye blink shifts, etc to have fun. Fun for me is twisting down country roads, banging through the gears, letting the little displacement motor run up through the revs.

[geoffbot]

But there is a difference between faster/ better and more fun. Modern cars in all measurable ways are better. They are safer, faster, less carbon output, better gas milage, etc but I am just saying I don't find them near as fun to drive as an old Spitfire, X1/9, MR2, original Scirroco, EF/EG Civic, etc.

Personally I don't need a million horsepower, eye blink shifts, etc to have fun. Fun for me is twisting down country roads, banging through the gears, letting the little displacement motor run up through the revs.

Hell yes. My polo was twice as slow to 60 but way more fun.

[mlcor]

In your country, mlcor could drape his watches out the window. And... he has just the watches for it, too.

Heck, if I still had the Lotus, it was small enough that I could have draped my right arm out the right window while driving...

[Samanator]

But there is a difference between faster/ better and more fun. Modern cars in all measurable ways are better. They are safer, faster, less carbon output, better gas milage, etc but I am just saying I don't find them near as fun to drive as an old Spitfire, X1/9, MR2, original Scirroco, EF/EG Civic, etc.

Personally I don't need a million horsepower, eye blink shifts, etc to have fun. Fun for me is twisting down country roads, banging through the gears, letting the little displacement motor run up through the revs.

I've driven all of these and other than the second generation MR2 I would not call any of them fun. That one I drifted on a test drive long before they called it that. With a catalog of parts the Civic can be fun. You missed the ultra tragic TR7/8.

They were OK to look at. Not to drive. I guess my view is a bit tainted since I worked my way through college as a part time mechanic at the only shop that worked on imports. I knew all the MG, Triumph and x1/9 owners on a first name basis.

Now had you included the second generation Toyota Supra and RWD Celica GTS I would have to agree. Those were fun and the Supra was actually pretty fast.

[tribe125]

It ain't fun if there's masochism involved.

I know people who get misty-eyed about oil puddles on their drive. I can't see it myself.

[93EXCivic]

I've driven all of these and other than the second generation MR2 I would not call any of them fun. That one I drifted on a test drive long before they called it that. With a catalog of parts the Civic can be fun. You missed the ultra tragic TR7/8.

They were OK to look at. Not to drive. I guess my view is a bit tainted since I worked my way through college as a part time mechanic at the only shop that worked on imports. I knew all the MG, Triumph and x1/9 owners on a first name basis.

Now had you included the second generation Toyota Supra and RWD Celica GTS I would have to agree. Those were fun and the Supra was actually pretty fast.

I guess we will have to disagree but to be fair both the Scirocco I owned and my Civics have all been modified to some degree. The Scirocco had Neuspeed Race springs, sway bars and braces with Bilstein sport shocks and some light motor mods. Although I still think stock Si Civics from those generations are fun. I don't know how an X1/9 can't be considered fun.

I haven't gotten to drive that generation of Supra. I have driven a 3rd generation Turbo. A bit of a fatty but super well put together and not a bad driver.

[mlcor]

I don't know how an X1/9 can't be considered fun.

Me either. I owned an '85, after Bertone had bought the car from Fiat. I don't know if he made improvements, but I had mine for a few years and it was great fun and never gave me a lick of trouble--maybe I got lucky. It was underpowered but enjoyable.

[Samanator]

Me either. I owned an '85, after Bertone had bought the car from Fiat. I don't know if he made improvements, but I had mine for a few years and it was great fun and never gave me a lick of trouble--maybe I got lucky. It was underpowered but enjoyable.

Again my sampling of the X1/9 was from local owners. The one I was the most familiar with the owner would have it in the shop for a week and then go out and trash it on the weekend. The cycle would restart the following Monday. I do remember going into a dealer and checking the shifter to see if it had the same rubber shifter (it did) as the ones I worked on. Forgot about the Bertone. Those had a longer life than I remember. I will admit when they first came out I had some pictures from a X1/9 sales brochure on my closet door along with some Porsche and BMW from the 70's. The Porsche is the only one of those that I've ever owned.

The one I do remember being fun that was kind of a Fiat product was a 1976 Lancia Beta. Silver with blood red leather seats and brown carpet? Probably the first small car I've ever seen with leather seats back then. It was pretty good for a FWD car on the back roads. I remember it also had Magnesium wheels not Aluminum shod with what ever was the hot Michelin tire back then and I believe 4 wheel disc brakes. If I remember correctly it was the first twin cam four I ever saw. A few years later my dad had one of the Fiat Dino Spiders convertible. That was off the chart fun.

As far as Honda there were a few that were OK, but it was not until I drove a VTEC DelSol that I would call a Honda (non motorcycle) fun. It happened again with the S2000 (I had both of the VTEC DelSol and the S2000).

I also missed Datsun Z Cars from back then in my original fun list. Those were really fun. I guess if you had a 510 back then those were pretty good also, but I've never driven one. My first 10 years of driving was mostly highly modified Toyota RWD Celicas. I hated FWD, even today not a fan of it.