The cars and bikes thread!

[Seriously]

Automatics are indeed dull

Conventional torque convertor auto's are a bit different to a DCT, albeit they both have two pedals....

Have you driven a dual clutch GB?

[geoffbot]

Not sure-I drove the automatic BMW m235i

[Raza]

The problem is, things have reversed over the past ten years. Used to be manuals were quicker, more reliable, and more fuel efficient than automatics. Now, the sophisticated dual clutch systems shift faster and more efficiently than manuals, and get better gas mileage.

They are admittedly less fun, and take some of the skill out of driving. OTOH, so did synchronized clutches, and very few people are clamoring for their renaissance.

i did enjoy the manual transmission in my Lotus, but at least the automated manual (not an automatic) in my Vantage demands attention to (and choice of) gear selection. In sport mode, it won't up shift for you--if you go to redline, it will hit the limiter.

ACTs being faster than manuals has really no bearing in real life. Outside of a track, the shift time differences are so small that no person would ever notice them. Sure, some systems have launch control for that great magazine time, but in the real world, the difference is so negligible that the engagement and enjoyment of a true manual outweighs it every time.

[Raza]

Conventional torque convertor auto's are a bit different to a DCT, albeit they both have two pedals....

Have you driven a dual clutch GB?

They're the same. People pretend their different, but automatic is automatic. They may feel a bit different and shift a bit quicker, but the differences are of degree, not of kind.

[Seriously]

They're the same. People pretend their different, but automatic is automatic. They may feel a bit different and shift a bit quicker, but the differences are of degree, not of kind.

They are chalk and cheese

Conventional brake banded & epicyclic geared/torque convertor 'boxes aren't even directly connected to the engine for gawds sake !

DCT's are , via a dual (but conventional) clutch !

[geoffbot]

If there's no gear stick and clutch they're the same to me. Autos are more economical and efficient and quicker, but not as fun.

[Raza]

They are chalk and cheese

Conventional brake banded & epicyclic geared/torque convertor 'boxes aren't even directly connected to the engine for gawds sake !

DCT's are , via a dual (but conventional) clutch !

Oh, I know how they work. And I've logged thousands of miles one both platforms. And from the driver's seat, the differences are all but indiscernible.

I can tell the difference generally, but neither is more engaging than the other. They're both computer controlled self-shifters. They're both automatics. The push for people to view them differently is a marketing trick, for which you've fallen, unfortunately. ACTs, and DCTs especially are just more efficient automatics.

[93EXCivic]

This beauty was running at the autocross on Sunday.

[Seriously]

Oh, I know how they work. And I've logged thousands of miles one both platforms. And from the driver's seat, the differences are all but indiscernible.

I can tell the difference generally, but neither is more engaging than the other. They're both computer controlled self-shifters. They're both automatics. The push for people to view them differently is a marketing trick, for which you've fallen, unfortunately. ACTs, and DCTs especially are just more efficient automatics.

I'd have thought as a stick shift afficianado , you would have felt the difference of it being fully in gear... 'connected' ...on the DCT , rather than the 'sloppy' feel of the torque convertor connection with a conventional auto box.

I'm sorry but mechanically they are two distinct gearbox systems/technologies .... directly connected conventional cog gearbox (or in the case of DCT , effectively two gearboxes) vs epicyclic/brake band controlled connected via a torque convertor (even if recent ones do have a lock up clutch).

On the end-user side of things, on the outside, to the general public, they may appear to be similar because they've got two pedals as opposed to three.

[tribe125]

Automatics are for the more refined driver, I find.